Subject: Re: Imagine and freelancing
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 11:33:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Michael Halleen <halleen@Venus.mcs.com>

On 17 May 1994, Mike Halvorson wrote:

> 	As for looking down you nose at others who are not as fortunate as you to
> be able to make money doing what you do, shame on you.  The word hobbyist is a

> real downer, but for a bit of time and money these hobbyist are the artists of

> tommorow.  Dont be offened, but I started as a hobbyist and still think that
> doing 3D for fun and profit is OK.  Many of these hobby folks do great work an
d
> should be commended not comdemed for their efforts.  I am sure you will agree.


This is not what I meant.  I do not look down on anyone creating for
artistic purposes.  All I was saying was that I had chosen the wrong
package.  Imagine is popular among people who create for their own
personal satisfaction.  I've seen appeals to the few people out there
'with serious hardware' or, as in the call for the grossest texture
contest, '"professional" artists'.  These things are treated like
rarities.  I'm just now realizing that to do my serious professional work
(not in quotes) I need to start using something else.  

If you hang out for a while on comp.graphics.animation you'll see that the
people who work for the major studios in Hollywood have respect for Real
and LW.  They've either never heard of Imagine, or they scoff at it.

"Needs serious work in the renderer"  "The most hostile interface"  
"A lost cause"

These are taken from actual post by actual professionals in c.g.a.

What I meant in my post was that I want to hear if any real professionals,
not art students or hobbyists, think Imagine is the best option.  (No
offense is meant by the term hobbyist.  3d is a great hobby.  I have hobbies
too, and for them, I don't go out and buy the highest end gear available
either.)

Are any major network or syndicated shows being produced using Imagine? 
Any commercials or movie effects?  I read AV Video, a video professional's
rag, and they make references all the time to LW, ADPro, and all kinds of
Toaster utilities.  They include artwork produced on Amigas and have a
column dedicated to the Amiga.  Imagine is nowhere to be seen.

Here are some examples of Imagine amateurism.

No version numbers?  I called up Impulse before 2.9 was released because I
was updateding all my software.  I currently had 2.0.  I asked what their
latest version was.  "2.0," they said.  But I've heard in this group that
there *have* been updates, and in fact already has been an update to 3.0,
but that Impulse identifies the different versions by the size of the
file.  That ridiculous.  I don't have time for crap like that.  I was
making several long distance phone calls that day, spending a lot of
money.  What I wanted to hear was "2.4.3, the upgrade from 2.0 costs $57,
can I have your credit card number please." Now you want me to pay you in
advance?  You're crazy. 

No Arexx?  Art Department Professional is the most useful piece of
software I have ever seen, preciesly because it has extensive Arexx
support.  You talk about want us users to push the software in ways you
didn't think of.  I have pushed ADPro all over the place using Arexx. 
It's not a features problem, it's a process problem.  As a professional,
one of the things you have to worry about is time.  Arexx allows you to
manage your time and innovate in the way you do your work.  Imagine has
its way, or the highway.

How about something simple, like getting 30fps playback.  I need to
produce test animations for my clients.  Usually, at some point they're
going to want a version that they can include in their off-line edit (know
what that is?).  This test version must be exactly the right speed, and
length.  My clients are hiring voice over talent, music composers, renting
editing room time, etc.  If I come back to them with a final product that
is timed wrong, that will waste their money, and they will be mad at me. 

In the stage editor, when you play a test animation, your choice of speeds
ranges from 'slow' to 'fast', and most of the slow speeds are totally
useless, as is the default speed, which is way to fast.  The useful range
of speeds are all in a small range on the right side of the slider, but
you don't know what the actual speed is, and 30fps in not one of them as
far as I can tell by timing it.  Professional software would not waste my
time with my watch to my ear, counting frames trying to figure out what
frame rate I'm running at. 

In the project editor, when playing an animation, the default speed is
10fps.  There is no 15fps, which could be usefull (I would use it).  There
are eight more speeds (F3-F10) that are too slow to be of any use.  To get
playback at the right speed, you have to press 'play movie' and then press
F1 immediately, but you still may lose a few of the frames at the head. 
Or you can let the animation run to the end, pause it, then press F1. 
This is a hassel.  THIRTY FRAMES PER SECOND should be default in all
situations.  The fact that it's not shows me you don't consider Imagine a
tool for producing professional video work.


My appeals to this group is my last ditch effort to see if there's
something I'm missing.  I've asked, and no one answered, what are Forge
and Essence?  These seem popular, but I've never heard of them.  I just
found out about ISL, would really have helped me out a year ago.  I didn't
have access to this information, so I was stuck with 2.0 and its manual
(which I quickly discarded).  At first I thought Imagine was great, but I
had nothing to compare it to.  I found lots of things about it that I
would like changed, and they grew into major frustrations.  Now I'm in
contact with my peers, and I'm finding out that my peers in the
professional world think Imagine stinks and that my fellow Imagine users
are art students and part timers.  I just feel like I'm at the wrong
party.  No offense is meant. 


> 	Finally, I stand ready for the test, post a situation and I can do it
> faster and better than the other folks with IMagine, it is the best, you just
> dont know that.  

Do Babylon 5.  Do SeaQuest.  Do something for someone who wants two test
anims a week and will constantly ask for changes.  Come up with a
perfectly timed test anim that you are confident can be cut into an
offline and used as a basis for music, voice over, and editing.  Try to pick
the right texture without spending all day, or waiting weeks
for someone to upload a sampler.


I think the mistake here was mine.  I'll give Imagine one more chance,
then I'll leave you all alone and go where I belong.

ANYONE OUT THERE USING IMAGINE FOR SERIOUS PROFESSIONAL WORK, SPEAK NOW OR
FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE.







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